Riddlesdown Residents Association
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Message started by 113ever on Aug 22nd, 2002 at 9:00pm

Title: Dunmail Drive development
Post by 113ever on Aug 22nd, 2002 at 9:00pm
Regarding the rumour about the proposed opening up of Dunmail Drive by development by Laing.

It was recently reported that the residents of Honister Heights and Grisedale Gardens are opposing the development of Dunmail Drive by Laing.

They are not representative of local feeling. Dunmail Drive, at least the western side SHOULD be developed as soon as possible because:

Its is the main thoroughfare to Riddlesdown school for hundreds of children every day, with the long history of sex attacks on the common it would provide much improved safety for them

Secondly, Riddlesdown school has a huge traffic circulation problem, that the opening up of this road would solve.

Thirdly, planning gain could be extracted from Laing (or whichever developer) for some key worker housing near the school, to address the huge teacher turnover problems in the area.

Fourthly, the scrubby, litter strewn land has no recreational or aesthetic merit, there is enough land to screen the houses from Rectory Park and they are contiguous with Honister Heights anyway.

Dunmail Drive is an anomaly - it was laid out for development before WW2 - it is pure fluke that the highly visible, smack in the middle of the greenbelt, Honister Heights was developed and Dunmail Drive was not.

I'm sure this will not appeal to local NIMBYs and those who do not have children at Riddlesdown School, but think about the wider benefits.

I urge all residents to support any application by Laings to improve the safety of local schoolchildren and as a victory for common sense.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on Sep 6th, 2002 at 12:24am
i still support the opening of dunmail drive.

the school traffic in ingleboro drive during the last couple of days has been a nightmare - much worse than usual. the outsiders race up and down this road as if it's brands hatch. yesterday morning i had to wait a full 10 minutes for a break in the traffic so that i could get in my car. an elderly neighbour waited a full 20 minutes for a break in the traffic so that she could cross the road.

i imagine that honister heights, derwent drive, buttermere gardens, etc are all suffering the same problems.

has anyone monitered traffic levels in these roads over the last few years? if not, maybe some of us could try doing so. maybe it could help in opposition to the school's applications for new classrooms and for accepting more pupils.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by JohnXMartin on Sep 7th, 2002 at 10:18am
I agree that Dunmail Drive should be opened, even at the expense of some modest Laing development. To my mind, the main benefit would be to divert the traffic and ease the school-day chaos around Honister Heights and nearby.
However I am a resident on the other side of Mitchley Avenue and am not directly affected by the traffic, although I have been caught up in it once or twice. I now know better.
I think that affected residents, a group of whom at a meeting  I understand opposed the idea virtually unanimously, should have a major say in the debate. But are they fully representative? In any case, they should listen to the other viewpoint, may be at a more widely-represented residents' meeting.
Also, the more views we get on the Message Board the better.

JJX Martin

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by tigger99 on Dec 22nd, 2002 at 7:02pm
Whilst the previous writers have expressed an interest in the opening of Dunmail Drive for reasons of alleviating congestion I'm afraid I cannot agree on their conclusions. Yes I do live and am affected by the traffic mentioned but the long term prospects of allowing this opening must be assessed. I do not believe that creating a flow system will result in a reduction of the problem that is occurring. The tailbacks that occur now may well assist in persuading less traffic than already is seen, opening up a through route would remove that persuasion and may well increase the volume that already exists. The developments that Laings / Wimpey may have in mind if concessions are being given may NOT be the ideal environment that you seek to affect. All alterations to the landscape need to be looked at for both the long term and short term benefits. If you lose the beautiful area you have now to short term beliefs you will never recover them. Change YES, but with good analytical advice on its shortcomings and advantages NOT guesswork.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on Dec 31st, 2002 at 1:03am
unfortunately, we're already losing the beautiful area we live in to traffic. ingleboro drive is a nightmare in the morning and afternoons. the school keeps increasing it's intake and applying for permission to build more classrooms. things can only get worse.

dunmail drive is a grotty "track", unlit at night, poorly surfaced (IMO, dangerous), heavily littered. it's our local eyesore. nobody lives down there. opening up dunmail drive as a properly surfaced and properly lit route to the school will reduce traffic and increase safety in surrounding streets. the handful of walkers that use dunmail drive would (hopefully) be provided for with pavements. everyone wins.

would tailbacks deter drivers? no. they never do. an article in the croydon advertise, december 27th, talked of the 12 hour rush hour we have in croydon .......

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Larry on May 9th, 2003 at 5:59pm
Having just registered and finding my way around the site I have seen the comments on Dunmail Drive. The reason it's an eye sore is due to the people/residents that see it as an alternative to the Purley council tip. There is no excuse for it to be an eye sore other than those that deem it to be conveinent dumping ground for rubbish and the children that have no idea about using litter bins.

I also feel if this was ever opened up to a public highway it would give the green light to the land owners to develop either side for housing. With the country side disappearing at an alarming rate we should defend and such encroachment no matter how small. I 'm pleased to see it has been refused.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Paul on May 13th, 2003 at 5:46pm
Dunmail Drive should definitely be opened up.

The school congestion argument alone is unanswerable.

As to the previous point on all the surrounding area being swallowed up, this won't happen. The Green Belt regulations are so strict that even this bit of commonsense joining up of the existing estate with Mitchley Hill (and incidently the original planned entrance to the school) has taken 50 years. Any further development has no chance.

Sensitively designed housing below the treeline would ensure the children had a safe passage into the school, relieve congestion and provide some badly needed new local housing - hopefully for teachers.

Nobody really wants to use the horribly narrow, hairpin bends and hills currently needed to get to Honister Heights. It would make the Riddlesdown roads so much quieter if school traffic was routed via Dunmail Drive.

Surely its time to lobby councillors to get this development the green light now!

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Nick Bygrave on May 13th, 2003 at 6:18pm
I don't think anything new has happened on this matter since the meeting of those residents who would be most affected and who voted overwhelmingly against opening up Dunmail Drive.
At the moment the pros appear to be in a minority so it is up to them to drum up support which we of course shall be happy to convey to the Council if and when the matter comes up.
The RRA itself is not taking sides on the issue but wants to facilitate the expression of residents' views.
Nick Bygrave

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on May 14th, 2003 at 9:50pm

The reason it's an eye sore is due to the people/residents that see it as an alternative to the Purley council tip.

partially correct - should really be "...an alternative to proper disposal".
there are sometimes old settees dumped at the bottom gate - the council can collect large furniture. there are sometimes lorryloads of junk dumped at the bottom gate - lorryloads are not accepted at the purley council tip, they have to go elsewhere (beddington lane??).
strangely, we don't seem to get old settees or lorryloads of junk dumped at the bottom of dalegarth, buttermere, or any of the other developed roads ....

There is no excuse for it to be an eye sore .... the children that have no idea about using litter bins.

alas, there are no litter bins in dunmail drive. and with dunmail drive being closed off by gates top and bottom, the roadsweeping lorries cannot clean up either.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Ian on May 16th, 2003 at 8:49am
Can anyone on Honister Heights, that voted against the Dunmail proposal, explain why they prefer to put up with the daily congestion nightmare of a blocked road, parking over driveways and ten times the volume of traffic they would otherwise get?

As well as tolerating the litter strewn, perverts paradise, mud track that Dunmail currently is ?

If they are afraid of through traffic why not make it a cul de sac with turning circle ?

I live outside another local school and would jump at a solution to my daily congestion hell, like this one..

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Larry on Jun 6th, 2003 at 12:18pm
Should Dunmail Drive ever be opened as a public highway would this not open the flood gates to development of the area . Many of us I expect moved to Riddlesdown and surrounding area because of what it has to offer regarding green open space. As to the litter / rubbish it does not get there on it's own. I would expect if this path was openened up not only would the litter still remain but I would expect fly tipping  becoming a major issue.

It seems the major issue here is the school and the traffic it generates in the mornings and afternoons. It seems the school no longer serves the local community, due to expansion is looking further afield to fill it's classrooms. The car users would still use the most convieniant route which would not necessarly mean Dunmail Drive.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on Jun 11th, 2003 at 12:10pm
opening dunmail drive as a properly surfaced road with pavement, street lighting and litter bins need not mean building houses.

but in my opinion, houses along dunmail drive would not necessarily be a bad thing. as Ian says, it's a perverts paradise as it is right now - housing could mean people would be around to keep an eye on things and keep the perverts away. there have been some sickening attacks on the common and we don't want more. why give the perverts a haven??

as for traffic, there is only one convenient route to the school (via roads leading to honister heights) - and all road vehicles use it - a second route to the school, away from ingleboro drive, buttermere gardens, derwent drive etc can only reduce traffic and improve safety along these roads.

and as for fly-tipping, no sooner had someone's living room (sofas etc) been removed from the bottom of dunmail drive, someone's driveway was dumped there. it was removed after a week or 2 - won't be long before the next lorryload of crap gets dumped there.

and i still don't see any fly-tipping along the roads with houses ......

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Ed on Jun 18th, 2003 at 9:37pm
I feel that Dunmail Drive should be opened up as a one-way road upto or down from the school.
Regarding litter, I have seen the small bins overflowing which is a good sign. So why doesn't the council provide bigger, trough size bins ?

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Graham & Helen on Sep 2nd, 2003 at 8:56pm
First day of the new school year and utter chaos on the roads leading to/from Riddlesdown School, with Honister Heights, Eskdale gardens, Ingleboro Drive and Buttermere Gardens gridlocked.  It took us just over 20 minutes this morning to cover the first 100 yards from our house in Eskdale Gardens !!!!!

Is this what we have to look forward to for the rest of the school year?

The school has been allowed to expand on numerous occasions over the last 10 years and it is obvious that it has grown too large for the narrow residential roads serving it to cater with the volume of traffic.  In addition to the rising volume of traffic, the narrow roads have become more congested by the significantly increased number of cars that are parked there, therefore making it even more difficult.

The only feasible solution would appear to be the development of a new access road via Dunmail Drive with a turn-around area outside the school to allow traffic to enter and depart by this route.

I believe that any future planning approval related to development at the school should be dependent upon development of an alternative access route.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by westfield on Feb 1st, 2005 at 11:04am
Sorry to bump an old thread. I was just browsing the board and noticed this... I am interested as, having been born in Sanderstead and now living in South Croydon I find myself doing the school run up Buttermere to do a drop off on my way to work each morning.

Did anything ever come of the proposed (?) developement?

For what it's worth I think the traffic isn't too bad around the school, and it is only for a small window in the morning and evening.

The thought of cars racing up and down through the old woods is terrible!

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on Feb 6th, 2005 at 11:14pm

wrote on Feb 1st, 2005 at 11:04am:
For what it's worth I think the traffic isn't too bad around the school, and it is only for a small window in the morning and evening.

The thought of cars racing up and down through the old woods is terrible!

Yes - far better for them to race up and down the residential streets used by lots of children going to and from school plus residents.
The small window in the morning and afternoon is great for keeping elderly residents off the streets. They would only get in the way of your cars if they tried crossing the road. It would be very selfish of them to want to leave the house during the school run.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by westfield on Feb 7th, 2005 at 7:44pm
Surely the people just walk on the pavement ??? Your 'protect the pedestrian' argument doesn't really add up when on the other hand you are suggesting opening up a perfectly good pedestrian path through the woods to traffic!

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on Feb 7th, 2005 at 9:03pm
alas, dunmail drive isn't perfectly good - it's a very uneven surface, muddy, strewn with litter, unlit. it's verging on dangerous at the best of times, more so in wet weather or after dark.

elsewhere i've suggested that dunmail drive should be opened up with a properly surfaced road with speed humps and pavement and lighting and that the local council can then sweep dunmail drive just the same as any other road.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Tricia on Feb 9th, 2005 at 8:16pm
Wow lots of interesting points of view ! I would like to throw in a few thoughts -
I am a resident of Grisedale gardens and have not been asked my opinion either way - when did this take place? - feel I am being blamed for a handful of other peoples opinions
"school spreading the net wider ? In fact the 1st item on the criteria list on the prospectus is that you should have attended one of the 5 local feeder schools !!
I also have a child at Riddlesdown school and am far more interested in paving over the path that leads from Grisedale to the School gates
Are the parents that drive up to Honister heights aware that we drive on the left hand side of the road in this country ? - they often cut off the corner half way up Derwent drive in a bid to shave 2 seconds off their journey ! You drive down in school time at your peril.
How about a half way house ? - rather than make the road good, why not build a wide pedestrian path with good lighting, the children can then walk up the path safely, rather than covered in mud or tripping over the uneven surface. The children could be dropped off at the bottom of Mitchley Hill, where there are no residents to upset. As an added bonus they would be fulfilling the wishes of government to attack obesity in children by giving them more exercise !!

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by westfield on Feb 18th, 2005 at 2:28pm

wrote on Feb 7th, 2005 at 9:03pm:
strewn with litter
That's true... I took the kids up there before Christmas  and I was amazed at how much rubbish there was on the side of the path.

I was also shocked to see that the 'hump' created by the old bomb crater had disappeared and that the road runs straight now! I assume this was part of the work to put that mast up there? Where do the kids start their toboggan runs from now ;)

Mind you, there don't seem to be the number of dumped cars that there used to be when I was a kid.

We used to have a 'work party' day every now and again, I think probably organised by the 19th Purley Scouts, and we would clear the woods of dumped rubbish etc. etc. a couple of times a year.

Title: Re: Dunmail Drive development
Post by Trevor on Feb 19th, 2005 at 3:15pm
i heard that the new surface on the lower part of dunmail drive was done as a favour by someone who knows someone etc rather than done by the owners etc - no idea if that's true or not

the hump didn't go, it just got 'smoothed over'

19th purley scout group still have work days a couple of times a year, but really only for maintenance of the scout hut and grounds. alas only the same few people turn up each time.

in any case, it shouldn't be up to the scout group (or residents) to clear litter dropped by the school kids ...... i think the RRA has been trying to get the school to clear up the litter, but doesn't seem to have been much success ..........

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