REPORTS FROM THE RECORDER & ADVERTISING RATES
PLANNING ADVICE ON
USEFUL LOCAL INFORMATION
(Things to do, join and help with)
AND ITS COMMON
PUBLIC TRANSPORT INFORMATION AND REPORTS
UPPER WARLINGHAM IS ALSO IN ZONE 6 AND IS THE LAST STATION ON THIS LINE, WITHIN THE LONDON ZONES.
Industrial action by the RMT union (conductors) and Aslef (drivers) on Southern Rail and Gatwick Express.
Current Planned Strike dates:
Aslef train drivers will also suspend overtime working from 9 December, which means there will probably be more cancellations and late running of trains on non strike days. More information on this Southern Railways link
From Tuesday 24/1/17 Southern Railway will restore its full train service (in particular trains to and from London Bridge). However during this current dispute trains are likely to be cancelled without warning SO ALWAYS CHECK BEFORE TRAVELLING on this Southern link
RIDDLESDOWN/LONDON TRAIN TIMES (SOUTHERN RAILWAY)
Southern Timetable below is from 11 December 2016 to 20 May 2017.
Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Southern or National Rail. The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of this information.
*Trains shown in red below were axed from 3/1/17. However, they should be re-
To East Croydon (EC), & London Victoria, (London Bridge (LB)):
Weekdays: 06.15(LB), 06.42(LB), 07.02, 07.11(LB), 07.35, 07.46(LB), 08.04, 08.18(LB), 08.37, 08.46(LB), 09.06, 09.36 then 06 and 36 mins past hour until 23.06 (Plus LB train at 18.46, EC only trains at 19.16, 19.46 & 20.16).
Saturdays (To Victoria only): 07.06, 07.36, and then 36 and 06 mins past hour until 23.06.
Sundays (To Victoria only) 08.49, 09.41, and then 11 and 41 mins past hour until 20.41, 21.41, 22.41, 23.38.
To London Bridge -
From London Victoria to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 05.47, 06.24, 07.32, 08.53, 09.23, 09.54 and then 23 and 53 mins past hour until 23.23 & 23.47.
Saturdays: 06.23, 06.53 and then 23 and 53 mins past hour until 23.24 & 23.47.
Sundays: 07.47, 08.53, 09.23, 09.53, 10.23, 10.53 and then 23 & 53 mins past hour until 19.53, 20.53, 21.53, 22.36.
From London Bridge to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 07.03, 07.18, 07.50, 08.24, 17.13, 17.44, 18.17 & 18.47.
Saturdays & Sundays: No direct Services.
From East Croydon to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 06.06, 06.41, 07.17 (to Hurst Green), 07.34, 07.50, 08.09, 08.41, 09.11, 09.41, 10.11, then 41 and 10 mins past hour until 16.40, 17.10, 17.30, 17.42, 17.58, 18.11, 18.31, 18.43, 19.02, 19.11, then 41 mins and 10 mins past hour until 23.41, 00.16.
Saturdays: 06.41, 07.10 then 41 & 10 mins past hour until 23.41 & 00.07.
Sundays: 08.10, 09.10, 09.40, & then 10 & 40 mins past hour until 21.11, 22.10, 22.57.
Due to the ongoing ASLEF/RMT strikes and overtime ban, timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Tfl or the Operator(s). The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of the above information. Please check Southern timetable below:
FOR FULL TIMETABLE FOLLOW THIS LINK
Southern Customer Services: Tel: 08451 272920
National Rail Enquiries: Tel: 08457 484950,
Regular Southern Rail commuters will probably be aware of this compensation announcement, but occasional users may not.
From Sunday 11 December 2016, customers on Southern will be able to claim Delay Repay if their train journey is delayed by 15 minutes or more instead of the current 30 minutes (except when delays are caused by planned engineering work). It might be a hassle but at least you can get a refund!
Under ‘Delay Repay 15’ passengers will be able to claim 25% of the cost of a single fare for journeys delayed between 15-
Find out more on this Southern link
For those residents who are not regular users of Riddlesdown Station -
On trains from East Grinstead, it is usually carriage 4 by the exit.
Summary about redevelopment until 2018
December 2014 to January 2018 -
From 23 March 2013, the privately owned and voluntarily run Bluebell Railway will be connected to the national rail system at East Grinstead, meaning that Riddlesdown residents can get on a train from Riddlesdown Station and travel from Riddlesdown to East Grinstead and then transfer onto the Bluebell Railway.
Further information and update reports: Link to Bluebell Railway
Local Bus Route and Frequency
Bus 412 (Arriva)
The 412 starts/ends at West Croydon Bus Station and travels along Wellesley Rd, Katharine Str, High Str, South End, Selsdon Rd, Upper Selsdon Rd, Addington Rd (stop for Selsdon), Rectory Park, Mitchley Ave, Downs Court Rd, Godstone Rd, & ends/starts at Brighton Rd, Purley Hospital.
Frequency Weekdays & Saturdays: Early; 20 mins, Peak; 15 mins, Daytime; 15 mins, Evenings; 20 mins, Late Evenings; 30 mins. Frequency Sundays; 30 mins.
To Plan a bus, train, tram, tube, bike or walking journey from Riddlesdown, follow this link to the Tfl website and insert “Riddlesdown” in the “From” box. Link
London Bus Route Maps Link
Arriva London Tel 0845 300 7000 (0800-
The RRA have been made aware of the London Bus Users’ Online Community, an initiative set up last year by London TravelWatch that aims to give bus passengers a stronger voice. In view of the recent poor performance of our 412 bus service (or other routes), residents may want to voice their concerns?! If you want to find out more please follow this link.
(Sources: Trains: Southern Railway; Buses: Transport for London (TfL).
Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Tfl or the Operator(s). The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of the above information.
Changes to train fares and Oyster/Contactless from 4 January 2016.
Oyster and contactless can now be used at stations from Riddlesdown (change at East Croydon), Purley and East Croydon to Gatwick airport (including Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill and Merstham) as well as within virtually all stations in London. Further details on this Tfl link
However groups of three or more people travelling together may still find it cheaper to buy a paper ticket. Accompanied children under the age of 11 can now travel free on National Rail in the zones as they do on the buses and Underground. Unaccompanied children will still need to have an appropriate Oystercard or buy a paper ticket. Tfl link
Other children can also travel free and others at a discount with an Oyster Zip card. For information on how to apply for an Oyster Zip card for children Tfl link
Since 16 September 2014 you'll also be able to use contactless as well on Tube, Tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London. Further details on this Tfl link
This Pass is supplied by the London Councils (all the London Boroughs and City of London) to residents of London.
There are two types of Freedom Pass.
1. The Disabled Pass is available to anybody with a qualifying disability (see website for full list) who lives in a London Borough and is part of the National disability scheme.
2. The Older Persons Freedom Pass is available to residents of a London Borough who have reached the state pension age.
Validity London :
More information and how to apply;
60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme:
The former London Mayor, Boris Johnson, introduced a new 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme using a variation of the Oystercard from 1 November 2012 for those people over 60 years of age who no longer qualify for a London Freedom Pass. The pass will have the same validity as a Freedom Pass. Further details from the Tfl website
More information on all Oyster Adult Discounts and Concessions from Tfl website
Winter 2016 by John Rapp
412 Bus Service
Recently, it has seemed that at any social gathering in Riddlesdown, our currently poor bus service is mentioned. I can report that London Buses (part of TfL) are investigating the 412 route. They have learned that it is not an end-
I am continuing to monitor the train service given to us.
Post Note 4/4/16
As London Buses (Arriva) have given not given a satisfactory response to the complaints from the RRA about the recent poor 412 bus service, John Rapp has now taken this up with Croydon South MP, Chris Philp, and GLA Member Steve O’Connell. These complaints range from buses running well behind schedule and short stopping to their final destination, i.e turning of buses (towards West Croydon) at South Croydon (Swan and Sugarloaf) and Croydon Town Centre (Croydon Library) and towards Purley Hospital at Sanderstead Church / Limpsfield Rd roundabout. Residents complaints, which are mainly about the morning and afternoon peak services, have also been when there are no buses (and are time tabled to be around 15 minutes apart), they are then travelling together. There has also been confusion as to which bus stops to use in central Croydon opposite the Whitgift Centre because of recent road works.
Riddlesdown’s residents should now be receiving Croydon Council’s “Newsletter” regarding proposed 20 mph Speed limits for our South West Croydon area (Area 5). The Council are also consulting about 20 mph areas for two other areas as well; Area 3 (north west), and Area 4 (south east).
The Council have already consulted on two areas in the north of the Borough (north and north east; areas 1 & 2) and by a very slim majority (52%), the proposal was accepted and 20 mph speed limits are now in force in street in the north area and will be in force, in the north east by April 2017; but not on main roads (Class A & B). The response from the residents in these two areas was extremely low!
In order to speed up the process and before the next elections in May 2018, the Council have now said they will now shorten the consultation process and will consult the remainder of the Borough from 18 January 2017. These areas will not have any physical measures to slow traffic down, only 20 mph signs, spaced at arbitrary distances on street furniture. These 20 mph areas will differ to the current 20 mph zones. Zones only need a 20 mph signs on entry and have no repeater signs. However, they have physical speed restrictions measures, like speed humps and chicanes etc.
Unlike the first two areas in the north and north east, where the residents were given the opportunity to vote “Yes” or “No” – the three remaining areas in the Borough will only have the opportunity to respond and object to the blanket 20 mph limit. Therefore, if you are against the blanket 20 mph limit, you must follow the Council guidelines in the leaflet to register your opinion. Despite protests from a number of Residents’ Associations, the Council has denied residents in the south of the borough the option to vote “Yes” or “No”. Instead, the three areas in the south will have 4 weeks to respond to object to the blanket 20 mph limit – unlike the two areas in the north of the borough where the residents had a 6 week consultancy process, followed by a 4 week period to vote “Yes” or “No” to the proposal. The RAs in the south are still in correspondence with the Council about the change and method of consultation half way through the process.
The scheme for Area 5, is a presumption in favour of the scheme, and if you do nothing, you will be deemed to have approved of the introduction of the 20 mph limit! If you also object about the proposals for Areas 3 & 4, you will have to submit separate objections to these two areas as well.
The consultation began on 18 January and ends after 4 weeks, on 15 February 2017. If you do not receive the information by 25 January, then contact Croydon Council on 020 8726 6000 Ext 52831 to request a pamphlet.
In the RRA area (& nearby) the following roads will remain at 30 (or 40 mph);
However, the following “major side roads” will be at 20 mph; Mitchley Hill, Purley Downs Road, and Riddlesdown Road. Some roads that have bus routes will have their timetables affected, as buses will not be permitted to travel as fast, i.e. Purley Downs Rd.
There are very conflicting views on the benefits and problems with 20 mph area and it will probably cause heated debate and we should accept that different people have different views and priorities. The Council won’t commit themselves as to the number of objectors, and how many people have to object, if they consider that the scheme has been rejected in each area! All they are saying at the moment, is that it will be considered at Traffic Management Advisory Committee and then referred to Cllr Stuart King, the Cabinet Member for Transport and the Environment.
To introduce the 20 mph blanket limit in all five areas, it will cost the Council £1.5m if the scheme is introduced. However Tfl are funding the cost, although Croydon residents still pay for this through their Council tax.
It does however remain to be seen how extensively it will be enforced by the Police, who are the only Service that can prosecute motorists for speeding. At the moment you rarely see any Police enforcement in the current 30 mph residential side streets, so we perhaps need to ask; what are the chances they will police this new limit? It is generally agreed that 20 mph should be in force near schools (when children are present). But is it really practicable for all our streets especially with the many steep hills in our area, where most vehicles won’t get out of 2nd gear and will create more engine noise and possibly more air pollution (e.g. Coombe Wood Hill, St James Rd, Copthorne Rise)?!
Information about road statistics from Crashmap, since 1999, can be found on this link; and type in “Purley” or “Sanderstead” in the location. This provides very useful information and the vast majority of accidents and serious injuries in Riddlesdown since 1999, are on the roads that will remain at 30 mph!
When the Council announced plans for the 20 mph limit in 2015, the press release then said, ”Extensive 20 mph limits reduce the risk of accidents, cut congestion and pollution levels, encourage less car use and discourage rat-
More information is on the Croydon Council’s website
There is also a FAQ’s page
This page is the consultation material and map for Area 5.
The Croydon Conservative’s have issued this letter to all Residents’ Associations;
The Council have a policy to introduce 20 mph roads across the borough, these will cover the majority of roads, with the exception of a few arterial roads, such as Brighton Road and Addington Road.
Different people have different views as to the need for these 20 mph zones, but if implemented will operate 365 days a years and 24 hours a day.
Two zones in the north have marginally voted in favour of the scheme and now it is our turn to tell the Council what we want. The Council will start its consultation on the 18th January and it will run until the 15th February. They will deliver a leaflet with the full details to each household. The details will also be on the Council’s website. The consultation is not a simple yes or no vote, you will be asked to explain why you object, if you do, to the consultation and it will relate to all roads in the zone you live in to be 20 mph. This is a departure from how the previous two zones were consulted on so it is very important for you to respond giving your reasons. In summary the first two zones in the north of the borough had an opportunity to vote yes or no in an opinion survey, but the two zones covering the south and parts of the centre of the borough won’t have that opportunity.
This is an all or nothing approach so you will be expressing your view for the whole zone you live in. For example, Zone 4 covers Croham, Fairfield, Fieldway, Heathfield, New Addington, Sanderstead (part), Selsdon and Ballards and Shirley (part). Zone 5 covers Coulsdon East. Coulsdon West, Kenley, Purely, Sanderstead (part) and Waddon. Each Zone is consulted on separately, so if you have an objection you will need to submit it.
As your local councillors we have a number of concerns raised with us about this blanket approach scheme. We asked the Council to consider problem hot-
Whilst we all realise that accidents at low speeds cause less injury and damage there are a number of reasons why a scheme across the whole zone has raised concerns too. The concerns that have been raised with us are:-
If you do not receive the information from the Council by the 25 January please do let us know, so we can ensure you have the opportunity to make your views known.
Please do contact us if you have any questions.
Cllr Sara Bashford, Shadow Cabinet Member for Transport and the Environment”
The RRA will continue to find out as much as possible about the scheme so residents can make an informed decision. We will post further as and when we find out this information.
Mitchley Ave/Rectory Park -
Yet another road traffic collision occurred on 16 November at 6.30am, in Mitchley Ave on the bend with Rectory Park
It was raining again at the time and most incidents seem to occur here, when raining. Yet again a vehicle has come down the hill of Rectory Park and lost control on the exit and taken out the lamp column (for the second time in 3 months) by the woodland about 75 metres after the bend.
Photograph courtesy of Helen Leonard
Following this latest accident, the RRA have had extensive correspondence with two Council Officers since (copying in local Councillors and Cllr Stuart King the Labour Cabinet member responsible for Transport and Environment and Riddlesdown Collegiate). Cllr King has responded that he will take this up with the Director of Streets at his next briefing with him.
The RRA made a number of suggestions to Officers, which included improving the road signage, laying an anti skid road surface just before, on the bend and just after, installing an Armco barrier to protect pedestrians and additional chevron boards. Repositioning the lamp column damaged twice now, and additional road markings were another request. We also pointed about a number of other road defects locally.
The Council Officers have rejected virtually all our suggestions! They did say they have made a number of additional safety measures at this bend over the years.
However, Officers have said they will look to install another “SLOW” road marking just before the bend, and installing white marked dragons teeth on the road, to highlight the danger ahead, look at the signage, and check on the condition of the road markings. Something, but overall not a good result and the RRA will keep pressing the Council on this. In the meantime, if any other further incidents occur here, please post it on our Facebook page and with photos if possible (or e-
Regarding the speed camera further along in Mitchley Ave (near the shops) we have been told this is to be replaced soon. Safety cameras are controlled and maintained by the London Safety Camera Partnership (LSCP), which is made up of Transport for London (TfL), the Metropolitan Police and Her Majesty’s Courts Service (HMCS). The LSCP have informed Officers that the safety (speed) camera was removed following damage caused by vandalism, as well as all the road speed sensors being removed when the section of road by the camera was re-
We are also told the Council have applied to Tfl for funding to re-
Godstone Rd (A22) & Brighton Rd Coulsdon (A23)
For those who use the A22, Godstone Rd between the St James' Rd junction and the Secom building near the Harris Primary Kenley School (Roke), you may have noticed the lack of central white lines on this recently resurfaced section of road – (see photos below from Google street view, before and after).
These central white lines have also not been replaced on the Brighton Rd, (A23) between the Old Lodge Lane junction and the Coulsdon By pass junction.
A number of local Residents Associations have taken this up with the local GLA Member and Tfl as we believe it maybe a safety issue. These central lines have also not been replaced at two other locations in London (Wickham Rd, Shirley & Seven Sisters Rd, Haringey). Tfl say these white lines have deliberately not been replaced, as they along with some other local authorities believe motorists travel slower because the white lines are not there. It is a trial. They are monitoring the number of accidents for a 3 year period at these locations.
Does anyone have a view on either replacing or not replacing these central white lines? Please e-
The Highways Agency have introduced these HADECS 3 speed cameras on the M25 since May 2014, within their "SMART" motorway system (where the hard shoulder is now used). The other type, more usual on motorways; HADECS 2 cameras are mounted on overhead gantries above each lane on the motorway and are now operational on all parts of the M25.
The HADECS 3 cameras are on the side of the motorway and cover all 4 lanes (usually beside an overhead gantry). Principally they are to enforce the variable speed limits. However there are two in particular on the M25 about 2.5 miles after Clacket Services (anti clockwise) and like wise about 2.5 miles before Clacket on the clockwise section, which are flashing above the 70mph speed limit! Kent Police enforce these cameras on both sides of the motorway, east of Clacket Services.
There is another camera on the anticlockwise stretch about 2.5 miles before Clacket (and 2.5 miles after Clacket on the clockwise side) which is enforced by Surrey Police.
There are none of the white markings on the road to give any warning, as they are not required for this new type of camera. There are also reports of some motorists braking hard when seeing it flash for vehicles in front! They are also quite distracting at night when flashing on the opposite carriageway on this unlit section, as they flash across the motorway.
They are also now on other parts of the M25, M1, M4, M11 and M6 in places and will be soon on the M3. Be warned! Post Note 2017 -