REPORTS FROM THE RECORDER
PLANNING ADVICE ON
USEFUL LOCAL INFORMATION
(Things to do, join and help with)
AND ITS COMMON
PUBLIC TRANSPORT INFORMATION AND REPORTS
Some residents living by Riddlesdown station and close to the railway line to the north of the station may have noticed since about 12 August that the electric trains now running through Riddlesdown have a louder humming sound and are noisier. The RRA originally thought this maybe due to the electric trains in the 377 fleet, now running on the “regenerative braking system”. What this basically means is that the trains are now returning electricity back into the rail system when braking, allowing other trains to draw on that energy for power. However some residents have also told us they believe the diesel trains running to and from Uckfield are also noisier.
The RRA wrote to Southern Railway on 14 August, asking for clarification on this. We have now heard back on 26 September and again on 1 October and this is their response below. Southern Railway say that it is rail noise and not regenerative braking on their trains.
Southern’s Response 26 Sept
“Thank you for your recent emails to Southern in relation to the railway noise issue that you and other residents in Riddlesdown have experienced.
We are aware of a number of complaints being made by residents in the East Grinstead area regarding a recent increase in the noise of trains in the area, akin to a 'metallic' or 'grinding' sound. Unfortunately, this is nothing to do with the trains themselves but changes in the tracks, which are the responsibility of Network Rail. We therefore kindly advise that you contact Network Rail about this issue.”
RRA’s response 26/9/14
“There is no “metallic” or grinding” sounds at Riddlesdown from the track. This “grinding or metallic” noise doesn’t always occur from the diesel fleet that passes through here, from and to Uckfield, which of course don’t travel through East Grinstead! So in our view it is not a rail problem or a Network Rail problem.
The noise is an annoying deep hum from all the 377 electric fleet of trains only. It is worse on braking and acceleration into and out of Riddlesdown Station. It started on about 11 August.”
Southern’s Response 1/10/14 to RRA
“Thank you for your email of the 26 September 2014.
I should clarify that when Network Rail grind their rails, which they do to keep the railhead profile, they essentially make the rail head more curved so that less contact is made between the wheel and the track head.
This change of interface creates a difference in pitch. Absolutely no change has been made to our rolling stock, as our Fleet Engineer for Class 377 trains has confirmed. Your description of the sounds is similar to other reports received for the Oxted line and the Arun Valley specifically, where rail head grinding has been taking place.
It therefore remains our position that you will need to pursue the matter with Network Rail, as much as I apologise that you were not informed of this in the first instance.”
The RRA then took this up with Network Rail on 6 October.
Network Rail’s Response
Network Rail responded on 7 October. They did say they have indeed re-
For a detailed explanation as the what “regenerative braking” is, click on this link to the Railway people website.
Network Rail’s Report on regenerative braking
RIDDLESDOWN RAILWAY STATION IS IN LONDON TRAVELCARD ZONE 6.
UPPER WARLINGHAM IS ALSO IN ZONE 6 AND IS THE LAST STATION ON THIS LINE, WITHIN THE LONDON ZONES
One specification of the current Southern Franchise is that London Area Stations are to be staffed from the first to the last train. Riddlesdown Station was classified by Southern as part of the East Grinstead Line for this purpose. Now that it is recognised as a London Area Station, staff will be on site whenever trains are running.
Times below are up to 16 May 2015. The summer timetable came into effect 17 May. At at 25 May 2015, Southern Railway have not published their full new timetable. However the three time changes that affect Riddlesdown have been made below in red. Residents are advised to check times with Southern or National Rail.
To East Croydon (EC), & London Victoria, (London Bridge (LB)): Weekdays: 06.15(LB), 06.42(LB), 07.02, 07.10(LB), 07.35, 07.46(LB), 08.04, 08.18(LB), 08.37, 08.46(LB), 09.06, 09.37 then 06 and 37 mins past hour until 18.36, then 06 and 36 mins past the hour until 23.06 (Plus LB train at 18.46, EC only trains at 19.16, 19.46 & 20.16).
Saturdays (To Victoria only): 07.06, 07.36, 08.07, 08.37, 09.06 and then 37 and 06 mins past hour until 23.06.
Sundays (To Victoria only) 08.49, 09.41, and then 11 and 41 mins past hour until 20.41, 21.41, 22.41, 23.38.
To London Bridge -
From London Victoria to Riddlesdown: Weekdays: 05.47, 06.24, 07.32, 08.53, 09.23 and then 53 and 23 mins past hour until 23.24 & 23.47 (Fridays only) or 23.49 (Mondays to Thursdays only).
Saturdays: 06.23, 06.53 and then 23 and 53 mins past hour until 23.24 & 23.47.
Sundays: 07.47, 08.53, 09.23, 09.53, 10.23, 10.53 and then 23 & 53 mins past hour until 19.53, 20.53, 21.53, 22.36.
From London Bridge to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 07.02, 07.18, 07.48, 07.56, 08.24, 17.13, 17.44, 18.17 & 18.47.
Saturdays & Sundays: No direct Services.
From East Croydon to Riddlesdown: Weekdays: 06.10, 06.41, 07.17 (to Hurst Green), 07.34, 07.50, 08.09, 08.16 (to Hurst Green), 08.41, 09.11, 09.41, 10.13, 10.40, 11.10, 11.40, 12.11 then 40 and 11 mins past hour until 15.41, 16.11, 16.40, 17.10, 17.30, 17.41, 17.58, 18.11, 18.31, 18.43, 19.02, 19.11, 19.43, 20.10, 20.40, 21.11, 21.40, 22.10, 22.40, 23.10, 23.41, 00.06 (Fridays only) or 00.14 (Mondays to Thursdays only).
Saturdays: 06.41, 07.11 then 41 & 11 mins past hour (except 10.40) until 22.10, 22.41, 23.10, 23.41 & 00.07.
Sundays: 08.10, 09.10, 09.40, & then 10 & 40 mins past hour until 20.10, 21.10, 22.10, 22.57.
Above information is taken from Southern Railway timetable up to 16 May 2015. Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Tfl or the Operator(s). The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of the above information. Please check Southern timetable below:
FOR FULL TIMETABLE FOLLOW THIS LINK
Southern Customer Services: Tel: 08451 272920
National Rail Enquiries: Tel: 08457 484950,
Summary about redevelopment until 2018
From 5 January 2015, Southern's access into London Bridge reduces from six to three tracks. As a result, there will be changes to Southern services from that date.
From 12th January 2015 until August 2016, Southeastern services to and from Charing Cross will not call at London Bridge. Southern passengers who normally use Southeastern services to Charing Cross and Waterloo East from London Bridge can take Southern services to Clapham Junction and change to South West Trains services to Waterloo for Waterloo East and Southeastern services from Waterloo East.
Southern passengers who normally change at London Bridge for Charing Cross services will be able to use their London Terminals Rail ticket on the following Underground and bus routes without being charged. Further details on this link to Southern Railway.
December 2014 to January 2018 -
Govia Thameslink Railway launches a consultation on the December 2015 timetable. In July 2015 the Southern Trains and Gatwick Express routes will be incorporated into this franchise. Further details from Thameslink Consultation closed on Friday 30 January 2015 Link
From 23 March 2013, the privately owned and voluntarily run Bluebell Railway will be connected to the national rail system at East Grinstead, meaning that Riddlesdown residents can get on a train from Riddlesdown Station and travel from Riddlesdown to East Grinstead and then transfer onto the Bluebell Railway.
Further information and update reports: Link to Bluebell Railway
Local Bus Route and Frequency
Bus 412 (Arriva)
The 412 starts/ends at West Croydon Bus Station and travels along Wellesley Rd, Katharine Str, High Str, South End, Selsdon Rd, Upper Selsdon Rd, Addington Rd (stop for Selsdon), Rectory Park, Mitchley Ave, Downs Court Rd, Godstone Rd, & ends/starts at Brighton Rd, Purley Hospital.
Frequency Weekdays & Saturdays: Early; 20 mins, Peak; 15 mins, Daytime; 15 mins, Evenings; 20 mins, Late Evenings; 30 mins. Frequency Sundays; 30 mins.
To Plan a bus, train, tram, tube, bike or walking journey from Riddlesdown, follow this link to the Tfl website and insert “Riddlesdown” in the “From” box. Link
London Bus Route Maps Link
Arriva London Tel 0845 300 7000 (0800-
(Sources: Trains: Southern Railway; Buses: Transport for London (TfL).
Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Tfl or the Operator(s). The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of the above information.
A LARGE INCREASE IN THE PRICE OF OFF PEAK TRAVELCARDS AND OFF PEAK OYSTERCARD FROM 2 JANUARY 2015
This is the advice from the East Surrey Transport Committee, which the RRA are represented on by John Rapp:
From 2 January 2015 there has been a complete change to the prices and validity of Travelcards and the Peak and Off-
The Peak all zones one day Travelcard remains at £17 valid from 04.30 to 04.29 the next day.
Oyster Capping :
The present peak and off-
This will apply to Contactless card as well.
Last July London buses went cashless and you can only use a bus with a Travelcard, Oystercard or a contactless bankcard.
New Bus & Tram Pass :
A New one day Bus &Tram pass costing £5.00 valid from 04.30 to 04.29 the next day. They can now be purchased from railway stations in the zones & Tram ticket machines (a paper ticket). Also from and ticket shops (a one day Oystercard) on the day or in advance.
The East Surrey Transport Committee, which the RRA are a member of, have written to London Mayor Boris Johnson complaining about this rise of 34% for off peak Travelcards and 38% on the off-
The best solution appears to be, instead of using Travelcards, is to use Oyster or Contactless Bank Card where the daily cap will be £11.70 for both peak and off peak travel.
All London Buses Are Now Cash Free. They will only accept Oyster cards or Contactless.
Since 16 September 2014 you'll also be able to use contactless as well on Tube, Tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London.
Further details on this Tfl link
What is a contactless payment card?
Contactless payment cards are debit, credit, charge or pre-
If you've got a contactless payment card but haven't used it yet, you might need to make a chip and PIN payment elsewhere before using it for contactless payments (including for travel).
This Pass is supplied by the London Councils (all the London Boroughs and City of London) to residents of London.
There are two types of Freedom Pass.
1. The Disabled Pass is available to anybody with a qualifying disability (see website for full list) who lives in a London Borough and is part of the National disability scheme.
2. The Pensioners Freedom Pass is available to residents of a London Borough who have reached the state pension age (until 2010 the qualifying age was 60). At present it is 61 but will rise to 62 in 2013 (see web site for details of eligibility).
Validity London :
Outside London :
More information http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedom-
New 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme:
The Mayor Boris Johnson has announced that he will introduce a new 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme using a variation of the Oystercard from 1st November 2012 for those people over 60 years of age who no longer qualify for a Freedom Pass. The pass will have the same validity as a Freedom Pass except that it will not be valid buses outside London except for London routes such as 166 and 405. Further details from the Tfl website
More information on all Oyster Adult Discounts and Concessions from Tfl website
April 2014 by John Rapp
Thank you to our commuters who helped to make Clare Williams, the Southern Manager of Riddlesdown Station, welcome when she visited for a Station Walk on 12th December.
This was an opportunity for Committee Members to show her areas of concern. The service had not been good for a few days before, and it was again bad on that day, and Clare took away improved knowledge of many passengers’ concerns.
East Croydon, Victoria, and London Bridge, our three main destination stations, continue to have a building site feel. While 2018 is the target year for completion of the works in the last two stations, I do not have a date for East Croydon’s completion, where improvement tasks start and end each month. The latest task is the installation of middle handrails for bridge stairs to platforms three and four & five and six, with measurements being taken on 2nd April. The other set of stairs, which is temporary and narrower, will not receive a centre handrail because it is planned that at some time in the future platforms one and two will be moved to give space (extra land need is secured) for two further platforms.
We continue to have dialogue regarding the 412 bus service with Transport for London (which arranges the provision of bus services using bus operators) and Arriva the operator of the 412 service. I am hoping to receive factual information -
Transport Report -
A railway for leisure
At Riddlesdown Station we are looked after by Akil, Isaac, and Paul who provide an open ticket office from the first to the last train. Their good work, making travel from and to Riddlesdown Station more attractive, gave people more confidence to use the improved Saturday service from December 2011 with the previous four carriages twice an hour improved, giving a minority of trains still at four coaches, with most at six coaches and some in each direction at ten coaches, and far more pleasant journeys to and from Victoria.
More people are using the train for leisure, and not just the trains provided by Southern.
To the south of us is the Bluebell Railway (which lent its former Chesham Railway coaches for the 150 Years from the opening of the London Underground celebrations that took place in January). The Bluebell Railway has been an important leisure destination in Sussex for many years and its trains will serve East Grinstead from 23 March 2013. Reaching the Bluebell Railway by train is attractive and, subject to final clearance from Network Rail, our Sunday Service is (planned by Southern) to be improved from one an hour to two an hour between 09:41 and 20:41 northbound and between 09:47 to 22:47 southbound.
I have no information regarding the number of coaches on each train, but aware that Southern train crews have been heard to say that each hourly train should be eight coaches, I am looking forward to being pleasantly surprised on 19th May 2013, when the timetable changes.
We have been mentioning, to Southern the station being unattractive due to the quantity of litter behind the fences so I am pleased to report on clearance of bottles and cans.
There is at the moment a tremendous amount of railway infrastructure work taking place at many locations, with the Coombe Road (Croydon) Bridge Works, from 7 January 2013 for twenty weeks, randomly impacting on the 412 Bus Service as other drivers seek to compensate for the partial closure of the bridge. This is being monitored.
Transport Report -
Since my last report there have been many improvements to the infrastructure of the bus and train services we enjoy. Essentially there have been no changes to frequencies – just many improvements to make our travel experiences better.
Buses The changes to the bus stops have been completed. The bus stops needed to deal with the change from a one to a two door access point -
Trains. There have been a number of background changes for our benefit which include: installation of conductor rail heating systems, the Riddlesdown Station ticket office staffed when trains are running (more staff time to clear snow and ice from the ramps from street to platform level), longer trains (which has been gratefully welcomed by our commuting residents), the announcement of an order being placed for 26 new five-
Please support our good bus and train services by using them, and commenting (perhaps as a Committee Member) to the service providers. There is still pressure on further improvements which include the former Cinderella line between West Croydon and Wimbledon, which has become part of the successful Tramlink System (that last year ordered six new trams for delivery this year); the car park at Upper Warlingham Station – that is expected to be increased in size next year; and since the introduction of new diesel stock to Uckfield, a passenger journeys made increase from around 110,000 in 2004 to around 335,000 in the year to 31 March 2009. Only time will tell whether Sunday services will increase to half hourly (one from East Grinstead; one from Uckfield) on Sundays or if the line to Uckfield is electrified.
Croydon Council have advised the RRA, via Ward Councillor Cllr Yvette Hopley, that part of Mitchley Ave will be re-
In addition under Phase 1 of the work, the Copthorne Rise junction to Mitchley Ave will also be closed at times. Traffic will be diverted via Hyde Rd.
Local residents affected will have a letter drop by the Council. As the works will be under controlled signals and a convoy system, it will no doubt cause some inconvenience, so it is best to perhaps avoid this section of Mitchley Ave!
Pdf diagrams of the planned works and diversion are available to view on these links
Transforming Fiveways Croydon -
Information from Tfl
Transport for London (TfL) have recently ended a consultation on two possible proposals to improve road capacity at the junction of the A23/A232 at Fiveways Croydon.
Please visit https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/fiveways-
The two proposals are:
“Both proposals would change the road layout and the look of some streets in the area. Both would also improve facilities for other road users by providing new cycle lanes, more accessible pedestrian crossings and improving bus services. The proposals would help to meet a likely increase in traffic, caused by growth in the local economy and population, by reducing congestion and improving journey time reliability. We want to make the roads included in the scheme safer, more accessible and more pleasant for all road users.”
The RRA’s Submitted Comments
The Riddlesdown Residents’ Association (RRA) represent 1,400 households in the south of the Borough, close to Purley. Consequently most of our residents at some time, would usually travel along the A23, both north and south bound to avoid Croydon town centre, unless their journey is directly into the town centre.
The RRA’s view is that the information presented on the plans is poor. The graphics are poor, not detailed and in some cases, conflicting. If Tfl want to hold a public consultation exercise then should there not be detailed plans rather than just coloured routes of roads on a generic map?
It does also seem incredible to us that it appears there are still traffic lights in place on the Purley Way (A23) at both the Fiveways junction (Stafford Rd) and the junction with the A232 (Croydon Rd) and no bridge east/west, over either of these junctions. We believe the highest flow of traffic at these two junctions is on the Purley Way (A23), both north and south bound, yet it appears very little has been done to improve the traffic flows at these junctions for this directional flow of traffic! Surely this is a huge mistake if millions of pounds are going to be spent on redesigning these two junctions and improving traffic flows east to west and vice versa?
It does look from the sketchy details, as if the layout map for Proposal 1 contradicts the artist’s impression. The new ‘bridge’ is shown on the plan as carrying all traffic east -
It is not clear as to how northbound traffic on the A23 is expected to head east into Croydon. Will it still use the existing Stafford Road junction, or have to turn right at the new A23/A232 junction options? In our view, delays will still occur here, as so much traffic will have to turn right at whichever proposal is selected.
Tfl have also not said what current traffic numbers are at these two junctions and what are the predicted traffic numbers when the new Westfield redevelopment is completed!
One of the biggest problems at Fiveways now (Stafford Rd) is the new Morrison’s supermarket development and the considerably increased traffic flows to and from this car park. Obviously the previous Homebase store had traffic flows which were considerably less. What plans are in place to improve this particular individual junction? We are of the view detailed traffic impact surveys were not undertaken by Tfl and Croydon Council when planning permission was granted for this new Morrison’s supermarket.
Surely Tfl need to go back to the drawing board and present more detailed plans for these two proposals for further public consultation?
The RRA would also hope that detailed investigations are also being looked at other “bottleneck” junctions on the A23, including Purley Cross and the Lombard roundabout? At this stage we cannot therefore comment as to whether Proposal 1 or 2 is our preferred option. We hope you supply more detailed proposals at the next public consultation?
Toll Payment Methods Changed from 30 November 2014
From Sunday 30 November 2014 you are no longer able to pay for the Dartford Crossing at the barriers. This will change when a new scheme called Dart Charge is introduced. Dart Charge replaces cash payments at toll booths and the DART-
Instead of stopping at a barrier to pay the charge at a booth, drivers will need to pay remotely, away from the Crossing. There will be several ways to pay, including online, at one of many retail outlets including those with a Payzone terminal, or by phone.
You will be able to pay the charge before travelling if you know that your route takes you via the crossing or by midnight the following day if your use of the crossing was unplanned or you forgot to pay in advance.
If you already have a DART-
Charges from 30 November 2014
Cars £2.50 -
2 axle goods £3.00
It will continue to be free to use the crossing between 22:00 and 06:00.
How to pay
The cheapest way to pay is using a pre pay account. This saves you up to a third on each crossing. Local residents will need a pre-
Alternatively once Dart Charge is in place you will be able to make one-
Enforcing the charge will be an important part of the Dart Charge scheme. Penalty charges and recovery processes will be used to tackle evasion.
Evasion is likely to involve both UK-
Failure to pay online or by phone by midnight of the following day will, when ‘free-
Implementing Dart Charge
Implementing these arrangements will require greater use of technology and substantial changes to the existing road layout at the crossing. Advanced construction work at the crossing to prepare for the introduction of Dart Charge is well underway. In late November 2014, work will begin to remove the payment booths and introduce the new road layout.
Further details and how to set up a new account are on this Dart Charge link
The Highways Agency have introduced these HADECS 3 speed cameras on the M25 since May 2014, within their "SMART" motorway system (where the hard shoulder is now used). The other type, more usual on motorways; HADECS 2 cameras are mounted on overhead gantries above each lane on the motorway and are now operational on all parts of the M25.
The HADECS 3 cameras are on the side of the motorway and cover all 4 lanes (usually beside an overhead gantry). Principally they are to enforce the variable speed limits. However there are two in particular on the M25 about 2.5 miles after Clacket Services (anti clockwise) and like wise about 2.5 miles before Clacket on the clockwise section, which are flashing above the 70mph speed limit! Kent Police enforce these cameras on both sides of the motorway, east of Clacket Services.
There is another camera on the anticlockwise stretch about 2.5 miles before Clacket (and 2.5 miles after Clacket on the clockwise side) which is enforced by Surrey Police.
There are none of the white markings on the road to give any warning, as they are not required for this new type of camera. There are also reports of some motorists braking hard when seeing it flash for vehicles in front! They are also quite distracting at night when flashing on the opposite carriageway on this unlit section, as they flash across the motorway.
They are also on other parts of the M25, M1, M4 and M6 in places. Be warned!
“Hunting for coins at the side of the road will soon no longer be necessary for motorists across Croydon as cashless parking is introduced to on-
The Council has started rolling out the RingGo service, launched in its car parks a year ago, to the thousands of parking bays in Croydon’s streets. The roll-
A quick, easy-
Motorists can pre-
• the vehicle’s make, registration number and colour; and
• payment card details.
Alternatively, registration can occur at the time of parking, either by using the RingGo apps or by calling 020 3046 0010. Once registered, RingGo recognises the mobile phone number and retrieves the information previously provided. When paying, the motorist has only to state:
• the location code – each area has its own individual four-
• the length of time they want to park; and
• their payment card’s three-
Motorists can, if they prefer, use the automated phone service when parking by calling the clearly displayed telephone number. RingGo will recognise the mobile phone number and ask the motorist to:
• confirm the vehicle;
• confirm the location; and
• say how long they want to stay; and• provide their payment card’s security code.
Alternatively, the quick and easy RingGo “text to park” option can be used, allowing the nominated vehicle to park all day, simply by sending a message, containing their location’s code, to 81025.
With no ticket needed for display in the windscreen, civil enforcement officers will, with a simple check of registration plate details on an internet-
In Croydon, thousands of off-
Update September 2014 -
From Croydon Council
Croydon Council -
Why is there flooding? The Caterham Bourne and the water table
The Caterham Bourne is located to the south of the borough running along the A22 corridor in Whyteleafe, Kenley & Purley Town Centre, then runs along the Brighton Rd to Waddon and into Broad Green Wards as it makes its way into Wandle Park and then into the River Wandle. Most of it is hidden in underground culverts but it is visible by Bourne Park in Kenley, in front of the Harris Primary Academy Kenley (formerly Roke School) and as the “pond” beside Purley Oaks Recycling Centre. This is the reason that sandbags have now been placed around this “pond” and a number of pumps are in operation there, to try and prevent flooding at this location because water levels are so high. The water is being pumped into the underground culvert that runs along the Brighton Rd towards Croydon.
An interesting history of the Caterham Bourne can be found on the “Bourne Society” website. It is titled “A celebration of the Bourne” (click on the next link at the bottom right side of each of their pages, to continue the story: Link