REPORTS FROM THE RECORDER
PLANNING ADVICE ON
USEFUL LOCAL INFORMATION
(Things to do, join and help with)
AND ITS COMMON
PUBLIC TRANSPORT INFORMATION AND REPORTS
UPPER WARLINGHAM IS ALSO IN ZONE 6 AND IS THE LAST STATION ON THIS LINE, WITHIN THE LONDON ZONES.
Note; A revised timetable from Southern Railway, with effect from Monday 11 July 2016, will operate until further notice because of the ongoing train crew shortages. The London to East Grinstead/Uckfield lines are generally not affected and "most services will run on this route but please check before travelling on this
Further details on this link to Southern
For those residents who are not regular users of Riddlesdown Station -
One specification of the current Southern Franchise is that London Area Stations are to be staffed from the first to the last train. Riddlesdown Station was classified by Southern as part of the East Grinstead Line for this purpose. Now that it is recognised as a London Area Station, staff will be on site whenever trains are running.
RIDDLESDOWN/LONDON TRAIN TIMES (SOUTHERN RAILWAY)
Southern Timetable below is from 15 May 2016 up to 10 December 2016.
Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Southern or National Rail. The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of this information.
To East Croydon (EC), & London Victoria, (London Bridge (LB)):
Weekdays: 06.15(LB), 06.42(LB), 07.02, 07.11(LB), 07.35, 07.46(LB), 08.04, 08.18(LB), 08.37, 08.46(LB), 09.06, 09.36 then 06 and 36 mins past hour until 23.06 (Plus LB train at 18.46, EC only trains at 19.16, 19.46 & 20.16).
Saturdays (To Victoria only): 07.06, 07.36, and then 36 and 06 mins past hour until 23.06.
Sundays (To Victoria only) 08.49, 09.41, and then 11 and 41 mins past hour until 20.41, 21.41, 22.41, 23.38.
To London Bridge -
From London Victoria to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 05.47, 06.24, 07.32, 08.53, 09.23, 09.54 and then 23 and 53 mins past hour until 23.23 & 23.47.
Saturdays: 06.23, 06.53 and then 23 and 53 mins past hour until 23.24 & 23.47.
Sundays: 07.47, 08.53, 09.23, 09.53, 10.23, 10.53 and then 23 & 53 mins past hour until 19.53, 20.53, 21.53, 22.36.
From London Bridge to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 07.03, 07.18, 07.50, 08.24, 17.13, 17.44, 18.17 & 18.47.
Saturdays & Sundays: No direct Services.
From East Croydon to Riddlesdown:
Weekdays: 06.06, 06.41, 07.17 (to Hurst Green), 07.34, 07.50, 08.09, 08.41, 09.11, 09.41, 10.11, then 41 and 10 mins past hour until 16.40, 17.10, 17.30, 17.42, 17.58, 18.11, 18.31, 18.43, 19.02, 19.11, then 41 mins and 10 mins past hour until 23.41, 00.16.
Saturdays: 06.41, 07.10 then 41 & 10 mins past hour until 23.41 & 00.07.
Sundays: 08.10, 09.10, 09.40, & then 10 & 40 mins past hour until 21.11, 22.10, 22.57.
Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Tfl or the Operator(s). The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of the above information. Please check Southern timetable below:
FOR FULL TIMETABLE FOLLOW THIS LINK
Southern Customer Services: Tel: 08451 272920
National Rail Enquiries: Tel: 08457 484950,
Network Rail is having another attempt to replace the railway bridge over Old Lodge Lane, Purley. Last December/January’s attempt was aborted because of strong winds and then lack of time.
The closure of Old Lodge Lane for all road traffic from Monday 21 November 2016 until 9 January 2017 will probably have little effect on us here in Riddlesdown but other roads like Godstone Rd and Brighton Rd might be busier at peak times.
Because of 24 hour working, there will be some disruption to rail services between Purley & Redhill from 22.00 hrs on Friday 2 December until 06.00hrs on Monday 5 December. Buses will replace some train services.
There will again be 24 hour working on the lines from 21.00 hrs on 24 December until 06.00 hrs on 27 December. However the rail network is normally closed during this period, so services should not be affected!
For those who are interested about the road closure (or will be affected), there is a public meeting at St Nicholas School, off Reedham Drive, at 6.30pm on Wednesday 19 October. Network Rail will be in attendance.
Details of all upcoming engineering works can be found on this Southern Rail link
Further to the post on 6 February below (about railway ticket office closures and staff acting as "hosts" at some stations), after protests by members of the public, Stakeholders, MPs, London Assembly Members, and the RMT Union; the London Travelwatch Board felt that it was not able to support the proposals at the moment for changes to ticket sales at stations.
London TravelWatch will now formally confirm the decision made by their Board, to GTR (copied to the Department for Transport). They will now discuss the next steps with GTR. (GTR is Govia Thameslink Railway which Southern Railway is part of this group).
The issue has probably not gone away as passengers are now using ticket offices less (season tickets, oyster and contactless now being the main forms of payment), however, hopefully there is now the opportunity for a slower implementation with proper alternatives to the human issued ticket in place first.
Further information on this London Travelwatch link
Residents may have read in the press over the last few days that Govia, the parent company of Southern, Thameslink and Great Northern, are wanting to modernise the way they operate approximately 80 of their busier stations for the benefit of passengers, many of whom now buy their tickets online, or use Oyster, contactless and smartcard, rather than a ticket office.
Govia say there are 3 bands of stations where they have identified lack of ticket sales. This principally includes stations where passenger entry and exits are less than 1million passengers per year.
Govia say these 3 bands are:
More details are on this Southern link.
You may have also noticed that Riddlesdown Station isn’t included in the lists of 80 stations!
This is because for the year 2014/15, Riddlesdown had 405,852 passengers who went in and out of this Station. Although has been rising annually, and this figure is well up on the year of 2009/10 of 342,238 passengers, it is well below the limit of 1 million passenger entries and exits per year to stations on the lists.
At the last review of the franchises a few years ago, three Stations; Riddlesdown, Coulsdon South and Sanderstead, were originally not going to have full time staff attendance from first to last train. However, London Travelwatch at the time argued against this and said all three should be included. It was agreed then, that these three stations would be staffed from first to last train but this did not have to be booking office staff. Unfortunately with this new Franchise in 2015, TfL were not allowed to specify it. It is a direct ward franchise specified by Department for Transport (DfT) for a fixed price and all revenue goes back to the DfT. The DfT have specified that all stations with a footfall (entries and exits) of over 1million will be staffed, first train to last train but have not specified how.
It is not clear what the new requirements for Riddlesdown are and it is possible that from the summer 2016, the station will not be staffed from first to last train. It is possible if these proposals go through, Riddlesdown may only be staffed in the mornings.
The DfT and the Mayor of London launched their document and consultation in late January 2016 and it was announced that at the end of current franchises, the London rail network will be handed to Tfl to run like the London Overground. For Southern and Thameslink this will end in 2021. Southeastern will end in 2018.
The East Surrey Transport Committee (ESTC), which the RRA are a member of, will argue that all services in the zones should be included and when a service can’t be separated from other services then it should have the same conditions as those run by TfL in the zones. It will also be stressed that there are possible safety implications, as the platform is rather isolated and not overlooked by properties.
Currently this is a consultation and ESTC and the RRA will put forward the case to have Riddlesdown manned from first to last train. The proposals could be halted, or delayed, if as many people as possible object to proposals in the statutory consultation.
We will update more when we find out further information.
Summary about redevelopment until 2018
From 5 January 2015, Southern's access into London Bridge reduces from six to three tracks. As a result, there will be changes to Southern services from that date.
From 12th January 2015 until August 2016, Southeastern services to and from Charing Cross will not call at London Bridge. Southern passengers who normally use Southeastern services to Charing Cross and Waterloo East from London Bridge can take Southern services to Clapham Junction and change to South West Trains services to Waterloo for Waterloo East and Southeastern services from Waterloo East.
Southern passengers who normally change at London Bridge for Charing Cross services will be able to use their London Terminals Rail ticket on the following Underground and bus routes without being charged. Further details on this link to Southern Railway.
December 2014 to January 2018 -
From 26 July 2015, Gatwick Express and Southern joined Great Northern and Thameslink to operate under one company, Govia Thameslink Railway.
The people and staff you deal with hasn’t changed and the brands you’re familiar with of Southern, Gatwick Express, Thameslink and Great Northern will stay the same.
In fact, please rest assured: you won’t have to do anything different to continue travelling with us – tickets, stations and trains do not suddenly change on day one.” Further information on this link to Southern Railway
From 23 March 2013, the privately owned and voluntarily run Bluebell Railway will be connected to the national rail system at East Grinstead, meaning that Riddlesdown residents can get on a train from Riddlesdown Station and travel from Riddlesdown to East Grinstead and then transfer onto the Bluebell Railway.
Further information and update reports: Link to Bluebell Railway
Local Bus Route and Frequency
Bus 412 (Arriva)
The 412 starts/ends at West Croydon Bus Station and travels along Wellesley Rd, Katharine Str, High Str, South End, Selsdon Rd, Upper Selsdon Rd, Addington Rd (stop for Selsdon), Rectory Park, Mitchley Ave, Downs Court Rd, Godstone Rd, & ends/starts at Brighton Rd, Purley Hospital.
Frequency Weekdays & Saturdays: Early; 20 mins, Peak; 15 mins, Daytime; 15 mins, Evenings; 20 mins, Late Evenings; 30 mins. Frequency Sundays; 30 mins.
To Plan a bus, train, tram, tube, bike or walking journey from Riddlesdown, follow this link to the Tfl website and insert “Riddlesdown” in the “From” box. Link
London Bus Route Maps Link
Arriva London Tel 0845 300 7000 (0800-
The RRA have been made aware of the London Bus Users’ Online Community, an initiative set up last year by London TravelWatch that aims to give bus passengers a stronger voice. In view of the recent poor performance of our 412 bus service (or other routes), residents may want to voice their concerns?! If you want to find out more please follow this link.
(Sources: Trains: Southern Railway; Buses: Transport for London (TfL).
Timetables are subject to change, so if in doubt, check with Tfl or the Operator(s). The RRA cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy of the above information.
Changes to train fares and Oyster/Contactless from 4 January 2016.
Oyster and contactless can now be used at stations from Riddlesdown (change at East Croydon), Purley and East Croydon to Gatwick airport (including Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill and Merstham) as well as within virtually all stations in London. Further details on this Tfl link
However groups of three or more people travelling together may still find it cheaper to buy a paper ticket. Accompanied children under the age of 11 can now travel free on National Rail in the zones as they do on the buses and Underground. Unaccompanied children will still need to have an appropriate Oystercard or buy a paper ticket. Tfl link
Other children can also travel free and others at a discount with an Oyster Zip card. For information on how to apply for an Oyster Zip card for children Tfl link
Since 16 September 2014 you'll also be able to use contactless as well on Tube, Tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London. Further details on this Tfl link
What is a contactless payment card?
Contactless payment cards are debit, credit, charge or pre-
If you've got a contactless payment card but haven't used it yet, you might need to make a chip and PIN payment elsewhere before using it for contactless payments (including for travel).
This Pass is supplied by the London Councils (all the London Boroughs and City of London) to residents of London.
There are two types of Freedom Pass.
1. The Disabled Pass is available to anybody with a qualifying disability (see website for full list) who lives in a London Borough and is part of the National disability scheme.
2. The Pensioners Freedom Pass is available to residents of a London Borough who have reached the state pension age (until 2010 the qualifying age was 60). At present it is 61 but will rise to 62 in 2013 (see web site for details of eligibility).
Validity London :
Outside London :
More information http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedom-
New 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme:
The Mayor Boris Johnson has announced that he will introduce a new 60+ Concessionary Travel Scheme using a variation of the Oystercard from 1st November 2012 for those people over 60 years of age who no longer qualify for a Freedom Pass. The pass will have the same validity as a Freedom Pass except that it will not be valid buses outside London except for London routes such as 166 and 405. Further details from the Tfl website
More information on all Oyster Adult Discounts and Concessions from Tfl website
Winter 2016 by John Rapp
412 Bus Service
Recently, it has seemed that at any social gathering in Riddlesdown, our currently poor bus service is mentioned. I can report that London Buses (part of TfL) are investigating the 412 route. They have learned that it is not an end-
I am continuing to monitor the train service given to us.
Post Note 4/4/16
As London Buses (Arriva) have given not given a satisfactory response to the complaints from the RRA about the recent poor 412 bus service, John Rapp has now taken this up with Croydon South MP, Chris Philp, and GLA Member Steve O’Connell. These complaints range from buses running well behind schedule and short stopping to their final destination, i.e turning of buses (towards West Croydon) at South Croydon (Swan and Sugarloaf) and Croydon Town Centre (Croydon Library) and towards Purley Hospital at Sanderstead Church / Limpsfield Rd roundabout. Residents complaints, which are mainly about the morning and afternoon peak services, have also been when there are no buses (and are time tabled to be around 15 minutes apart), they are then travelling together. There has also been confusion as to which bus stops to use in central Croydon opposite the Whitgift Centre because of recent road works.
April 2014 by John Rapp
East Croydon, Victoria, and London Bridge, our three main destination stations, continue to have a building site feel. While 2018 is the target year for completion of the works in the last two stations, I do not have a date for East Croydon’s completion, where improvement tasks start and end each month. The latest task is the installation of middle handrails for bridge stairs to platforms three and four & five and six, with measurements being taken on 2nd April. The other set of stairs, which is temporary and narrower, will not receive a centre handrail because it is planned that at some time in the future platforms one and two will be moved to give space (extra land need is secured) for two further platforms.
We continue to have dialogue regarding the 412 bus service with Transport for London (which arranges the provision of bus services using bus operators) and Arriva the operator of the 412 service. I am hoping to receive factual information -
The Council have advised us that St James’ Rd, Purley will be closed from 22 October for approximately 9 days (Half term week). This is for utility & sewer work connection in St James' Road (beside the flats construction on the sharp bend) The closure will be from Godstone Rd to Downs Court Rd but local access will be allowed from the Downs Court Rd junction end. Diversion will be via Downs Court Rd and Godstone Rd.
Riddlesdown Road -
The Council have also advised Riddlesdown Road is to be partially closed Sat/Sun; 22/23 and again Sat/Sun; 29/30 October. This is the short section beside the entrance to the Purley Oaks Highways Depot and between the Capella Court “roundabout” (Brighton Rd -
We have asked the Council what the proposed alternative route will be, as “signposted accordingly” or will it be under temporary traffic lights. We are awaiting a response from them!
For those who use the A22, Godstone Rd between the St James' Rd junction and the Secom building near the Harris Primary Kenley School (Roke), you may have noticed the lack of central white lines on this recently resurfaced section of road – (see photos below from Google street view, before and after).
These central white lines have also not been replaced on the Brighton Rd, (A23) between the Old Lodge Lane junction and the Coulsdon By pass junction.
A number of local Residents Associations have taken this up with the local GLA Member and Tfl as we believe it maybe a safety issue. These central lines have also not been replaced at two other locations in London (Wickham Rd, Shirley & Seven Sisters Rd, Haringey). Tfl say these white lines have deliberately not been replaced, as they along with some other local authorities believe motorists travel slower because the white lines are not there. It is a trial. They are monitoring the number of accidents for a 3 year period at these locations.
Does anyone have a view on either replacing or not replacing these central white lines? Please e-
The Highways Agency have introduced these HADECS 3 speed cameras on the M25 since May 2014, within their "SMART" motorway system (where the hard shoulder is now used). The other type, more usual on motorways; HADECS 2 cameras are mounted on overhead gantries above each lane on the motorway and are now operational on all parts of the M25.
The HADECS 3 cameras are on the side of the motorway and cover all 4 lanes (usually beside an overhead gantry). Principally they are to enforce the variable speed limits. However there are two in particular on the M25 about 2.5 miles after Clacket Services (anti clockwise) and like wise about 2.5 miles before Clacket on the clockwise section, which are flashing above the 70mph speed limit! Kent Police enforce these cameras on both sides of the motorway, east of Clacket Services.
There is another camera on the anticlockwise stretch about 2.5 miles before Clacket (and 2.5 miles after Clacket on the clockwise side) which is enforced by Surrey Police.
There are none of the white markings on the road to give any warning, as they are not required for this new type of camera. There are also reports of some motorists braking hard when seeing it flash for vehicles in front! They are also quite distracting at night when flashing on the opposite carriageway on this unlit section, as they flash across the motorway.
They are also now on other parts of the M25, M1, M4, M11 and M6 in places and will be soon on the M3. Be warned!